Halo on E bay (Warning: Flipping for Profit)

Warnings of suspect sales.

Re: Halo on E bay

Postby Mowgli » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:50 pm

Doing my part to sabatage the sale. I just sent this "question" to seller hoping it will appear on the listing for all to see.

"This sale cheating Pantheon Steel. People wait years to these. Pantheon could and should make appropriate profit for their work. This seller exploiting the craftsman, musicians, and whoever pays this greedy selfish jerk even as much as what they sold it to him for."
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby aaron_in_sf » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:57 pm

Yesterday, we at Pantheon Steel requested the instrument be returned to us at our expense for a full refund.

We did not make it available in order to be sold immediately for profit (flipped).

This is the response we received (reproduce in full) from Robert Sobota, the seller:

---

No thank you. I bought it. It is not yours, it is now mine.

I was going to avoid a personal diatribe about the subject, but below is what I've written in preparation for this. Feel free to post it on handpan.org, but I really don't care.


For the sake of full disclosure, and to dispel the inevitable labeling of me as a greedy scumbag flipper, I will describe the timeline and events leading up to this auction. However, my conscience is clean.

In early spring of 2010, I saw two musicians at a theme park in Tennessee playing a couple of odd looking instruments that sounded absolutely sublime. That night I did a web search and discovered Pantheon Steel and their creation, the Halo. However, back then, as they are today, they were just about unobtainable at any price. So on 5/17/2010, I signed up for the waiting list. (Note: This was my one and only addition to the mailing list. I had not even considered the devious tactic of adding multiple aliases in order to increase my chances in a lottery.)

After the announcement of the Batch Two lottery and my subsequent entry, on 3/9/2011 I won one of the 200 spots. After a brief email exchange with Aaron at Pantheon, I agreed to be one of the last recipients for the batch because of personal finances. He anticipated that the tail end of the batch would be at the end of 2011 or early 2012.

To my surprise, though, and despite seeing Pantheon selling new Halos on ebay during this period of time, 2011 AND 2012 came and went. However, I did not complain, because I figured that 1) they must have needed supplementary funds to continue production, or 2) they knew they were undercharging for their product, so the ebay route would net them fair market value. If either one of these reasons were true, though, I don't blame them a bit. They ARE undercharging for their product, as can be attested to the ebay selling prices of $6,000-10,000. Elite instruments of any kind are priced way out of the range for most to own. If they were truly priced at market value, their would be no economic value to reselling it. With the greatest respect to Pantheon, the business model is flawed.

However, I do appreciate the fact that they did honor their original commitment to the Batch Two lottery winners, because on 2/27/2013 I received an email that said that my Halo was ready. After paying the agreed price, I received the Halo on Tuesday, March 5, 2013.

I am selling the Halo because in the 24 months I have waited for it, my life has changed considerably. Likewise, after waiting so long, my interest has faded. And, at the moment, in my hierarchy of needs, I am more concerned about food, clothing, and shelter rather than gratifying my self-expression wants. If it makes any difference, the funds obtained will be for the necessities of life, not for drugs, loose women, or a new set of rims for my ride (not condemning, just sayin').

Moreover, the last time I checked, I fortunately live in a free society that allows its citizens the right to sell anything that they legally own. I would also have the right to run it over with a truck, but at least this way it is going to be enjoyed by whomever decides to purchase it. And, despite the current political environment, owning a Halo is not an entitlement for anyone desiring one.

My hope is that Pantheon Steel continues to create these masterpieces, and more people get to experience the beautiful sounds that emanate from the sublime combination of the artist and the art.
Regards,

Robert
::: three cheers for singing steel :::
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby drumabob » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:33 pm

I guess that a ''non resale agreement '' for future halo's would only have a moral value and no legal grounds...am i mistaking but does panart have such an agreement?? but can they really do something about resale..??
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby Jay_Raz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:40 pm

Can't be hurting that bad if he had some $2k to purchase the Halo in the first place. I doubt Kyle would do this, due to the personal connection a maker has with their creations, but I would blacklist this Halo from ever being retuned. I'm sure that'd affect his resale price.

This was going to happen eventually, and really isn't anyway to prevent such an action. Raises an interesting question, what if all Halo where sold on Ebay? I imagine the prices would eventually balance out to a true market value.
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby broussel2 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:08 pm

(OKay, I know I'm talking to a pasted message and he's not reading me, but still...)

I am selling the Halo because in the 24 months I have waited for it, my life has changed considerably. Likewise, after waiting so long, my interest has faded. And, at the moment, in my hierarchy of needs, I am more concerned about food, clothing, and shelter rather than gratifying my self-expression wants.


So his interest has faded as well as his hierarchy of needs, so he decided to buy it. Makes perfect sense. Get a fucking job, man.

They ARE undercharging for their product, as can be attested to the ebay selling prices of $6,000-10,000.


Nice trick. But an auction price on eBay only reflects what can afford a single person on a market based on the auction system, which covers probably 5% to 10% of the whole number of Halo sales. I wouldn't call that "market value". And if you did knew the "market value" so well, why or how come that you di pay it much less from the only maker ? You can explain it in a thousand ways, you're still selling it for much more than what you paid for it.

Moreover, the last time I checked, I fortunately live in a free society that allows its citizens the right to sell anything that they legally own.


What can I say ? You're right. That even explains how so many people were kicked out of their homes during the last financial crisis. That's a free country.

I would also have the right to run it over with a truck, but at least this way it is going to be enjoyed by whomever decides to purchase it.


You wouldn't use that right. You want the big money.
Last edited by broussel2 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby Hobo Perdido » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:10 pm

sucks really bad.....

i can only cross my finger my time is coming in the lottery and forget about this story.....

only good things coming my way! and coming from me!
lets get lost between the sounds
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby psysaï » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:14 pm

if it is for money selling a organ too.....
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby broussel2 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:33 pm

The stupidest thing is that he didn't even decided to play it a bit or keep it for himself for a few weeks, to give it a try while he had it in his hands given how difficult it is to have one, even if he had firmly decided to sell it... Not even curious... Just getting rid of it as soon as he received it. Everybody has his own priorities, I guess.
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby Bikerbusk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:41 pm

This was going to happen eventually, and really isn't anyway to prevent such an action.



It's a shame, I would bet , this has happened more times then one might think... I'm at a loss, its that short term greed thing ... And at the very least.. this example shows the new folks what has been going on for some time now..
It's just so Ballzeee & top it off with an in your face letter and decline to Aaron in request ..I'm at a loss for words, to take a stance to a company and Aaron & Kyle that has been nothing but friends to us all...

But long term stuff like this is what distances the makers from the players, and I personally love that relationship that pantheon has with this community, and would hate to jeopardize that.. Halo is trying new things that are good, to help panless, & persons with lacking funds in same motion.. and for membership heads up these people doing these types of things is going to screw it up for all.. And I personal want that open door relationship with Pantheon steel and that's the only greed I got, I am so FREAKING Greedy to have relationships with friends.. I do think that's the only time when the word greed is a positive...Roy
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Re: Halo on E bay

Postby TyGuy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:44 pm

Judging by the name, isn't this the same guy who is selling an Ake Bono Halo?
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