Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

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Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby broussel2 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:40 pm

Posted on October 12, 2013 on Daniel Waples' Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/hanginbalance)

"So....
PanArt (the original makers of the HandPan/Hang) have recently announced that they will no longer create the 'Hang', but rather now they will dedicate their time to the 'Gubal'.
For some strange reason unknown to me they wish to try stop anyone else from making 'Hang'...

But don't worry!!!
Soon will come a new handpan instrument from the UK named Orbi!

Details to follow...
But meanwhile, here is one of the registered patent lists attributed to PanArt that we have to be care full not to fringe upon


http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120304845"
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby Afinfas » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Yeah its pretty obvious the friction between Daniel and PANArt.... i understand him actually!

When i published the Gubal Video on youtube he commented there (besides saying that he was surprised that Felix & Sabine actualy played their instruments) that the last time he had contact with PANArt it was a mail saying to him that:

"We dont want to have contact with persons who support other Hang instruments like!" Was something like this!

I really dont understand PANArt on this statement....

Go figure....
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby Lucidreverie » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:32 pm

Hmm well according to

http://www.uspto.gov/

They don't seem to have been able to obtain any official patents. Every source I've come across only shows "applications" for patents. Panart can trademark their name but i don't believe they cant "patent" a word . I could be wrong, this all feels a bit disheartening to see panart behave this way.

I am a firm believer in the collective consciousness of the world. I give them credit for "creating" the first but had they not done so I still believe this instrument would have found its way into existence, and to try to limit and control the existence of something that brings so much joy to others is terribly sad.
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby lino » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:07 am

@lucid: As far as I know, if a patent application's official status is listed as "published", that means it's been granted.

Last time I looked, Panart had:
a) a Swiss patent relating to their pre-Hang steelpan production;
b) the nitriding patent, at various stages of the application process in many countries;
c) a design patent (that's a very different beast!) on the IH & FIH;
d) trademarks on the terms "PANArt" and "Hang";
and presumably they're comprehensively protecting every aspect of the Gubal.

As to what precisely these cover and whether or not they should scare a handpan maker, that's a complex discussion. The protected aspects of the Hang are arguably easy enough to stay away from - but the relevant question to a maker is actually "how much could Panart's lawyers hurt me by claiming that I'm infringing, even if I think I'm not?", and that's much harder to answer.
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby soulful » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:54 am

The US Patent was granted on Oct. 8th 2013 #8,552,279.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... 0120304845

"Known from the Swiss printed patent specification No. 693319 (Panart Steelpan-Manufaktur AG) is a method for production of sheet-metallic-sounding musical instruments in which, following some mechanical preliminary work, starting with a steel sheet, a hardening of this sheet is carried out. Mentioned as hardening methods in the patent publication are a gas nitriding, a nitrocarburizing in gas at 550 to 650.degree. C., a nitrocarburizing in bath at 560 to 620.degree. C. and a plasma nitriding at 400 to 600.degree. C. "

Here are the claims:

"What is claimed is:

1. A method for production of a metallic-sounding musical instrument, which has a vibration-producing sheet metal membrane, in the method (a) a steel sheet blank being deep-drawn, forming a sheet metal membrane, (b) the sheet metal membrane obtained being hardened by nitriding and (c) the hardened sheet metal membrane being joined to a second piece of shaped sheet metal to form a hollow instrument body, wherein the nitriding mentioned in step (b) is carried out under conditions which result in a thorough nitriding throughout of the sheet metal membrane.

2. The method according to claim 1, wherein the nitriding is carried out with treatment periods of over 100 hours.

3. The method according to claim 1, wherein the nitriding takes place by gas nitriding in an ammonia atmosphere.

4. The method according to claim 1, wherein the nitriding is carried out by plasma nitriding at 400.degree. C. to 600.degree. C.

5. The method according to claim 1, wherein nitriding is carried out to a linear density of precipitated needle-shaped iron nitride crystals in the range of 40000 to 80000 m.sup.-1.

6. The method according to claim 1, wherein the nitriding is carried out to an area proportion of precipitated needle-shaped iron nitride crystals in the range of 10% to 50%.

7. The method according to claim 1, wherein the complete nitriding throughout is determined by measurement of precipitated iron nitride crystals on polished micrograph sections of the nitrided workpieces.

8. The method according to claim 1, wherein the nitrided workpiece is subjected to a surface blueing procedure.

9. A metallic-sounding musical instrument obtained according to claim 1.

10. The method according to claim 2, wherein the nitriding takes place by gas nitriding in an ammonia atmosphere.

11. The method according to claim 10, wherein the nitriding is carried out by plasma nitriding at 400.degree. C. to 600.degree. C.

12. The method according to claim 11, wherein nitriding is carried out to a linear density of precipitated needle-shaped iron nitride crystals in the range of 40000 to 80000 m.sup.-1.

13. The method according to claim 11, wherein the nitriding is carried out to an area proportion of precipitated needle-shaped iron nitride crystals in the range of 10% to 50%.

14. The method according to claim 13, wherein the complete nitriding throughout is determined by measurement of precipitated iron nitride crystals on polished micrograph sections of the nitrided workpieces.

15. The method according to claim 12, wherein the complete nitriding throughout is determined by measurement of precipitated iron nitride crystals on polished micrograph sections of the nitrided workpieces.

16. The method according to claim 15, wherein the nitrided workpiece is subjected to a surface blueing procedure.

17. The method according to claim 14, wherein the nitrided workpiece is subjected to a surface blueing procedure. "

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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby drumabob » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:43 am

I find the forum pretty quiet about this subject. :hmm:
Even if Lino says it is a complex question i would like to have makers opinion on this...Even on Daniel's facebook announcement members seem quiet there too. :dd: :dd: who,s afraid of the big bad wolf ...

I am wrong in finding this a bit un ethical to use this announcement to promote your own pan...like if it was the only other option in the world.
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby greenoak » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:45 am

I don't pretend to know patent law - so I will not speculate. I also don't know the hearts of the PANArt makers - so I will not speculate on them either.

However, I did not read any malice or selfishness in Daniel's post. He's a pretty cool dude from my conversations with him. I do not think Daniel is using the announcement for promotion of his new product only. I believe he is saying there will soon be another handpan on the market. That's all.

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drumabob wrote:I find the forum pretty quiet about this subject. :hmm:
Even if Lino says it is a complex question i would like to have makers opinion on this...Even on Daniel's facebook announcement members seem quiet there too. :dd: :dd: who,s afraid of the big bad wolf ...

I am wrong in finding this a bit un ethical to use this announcement to promote your own pan...like if it was the only other option in the world.
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby broussel2 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:25 am

drumabob wrote:I am wrong in finding this a bit un ethical to use this announcement to promote your own pan...like if it was the only other option in the world.


I don't even know if Daniel Waples has anything to do with this new handpan... He just mentioned it. And that's me who put it in bold here to underline the good news rather than focus once again on PANArt--as you know, there are no bold characters on Facebook.
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby Afinfas » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:25 am

broussel2 wrote:
I don't even know if Daniel Waples has anything to do with this new handpan... He just mentioned it.


Daniel also mentioned about the Echo sound sculptures a while ago as a handpan to have in sight cause they are awesome!! Thats how i got to know them and im appreciated for it of course. He now owns one!

So i really think that he´s more into playing and has nothing to do with makers, or any advantage from them besides getting handpans easily. I think he´s just saying there´s a new maker coming out, thats it. :)

Im quite curious to get to know it....but you still cant find anything about it...
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Re: Daniel Waples, Hang and Orbi

Postby drumabob » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:34 pm

greenoak wrote:I don't pretend to know patent law - so I will not speculate. I also don't know the hearts of the PANArt makers - so I will not speculate on them either.

However, I did not read any malice or selfishness in Daniel's post. He's a pretty cool dude from my conversations with him. I do not think Daniel is using the announcement for promotion of his new product only. I believe he is saying there will soon be another handpan on the market. That's all.

-greenoak :ugeek:

drumabob wrote:I find the forum pretty quiet about this subject. :hmm:
Even if Lino says it is a complex question i would like to have makers opinion on this...Even on Daniel's facebook announcement members seem quiet there too. :dd: :dd: who,s afraid of the big bad wolf ...

I am wrong in finding this a bit un ethical to use this announcement to promote your own pan...like if it was the only other option in the world.




So here I am jumping to conclusion way to fast. I started by " am I wrong" so it show's I am. I here wish to apologize to Daniel and to anyone else my comments may have hurt. Yes panart comment made me angry but this is no excuse for going over board.
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